Curse

Pyro Master · Jun 08, 2005, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Rarely, I find a monk or necromancer in post-searing who's a high level (13 for instance) and they only have a primary profession. I ask him/her why and they say something like "I like playing one profession, it makes a good character". What's the strategy in having one profession?

Neo-LD · Jun 08, 2005, 02:21 AM // 02:21

they were too lazy pre-searing. other than that there is no "advantage".

Amnisac · Jun 08, 2005, 02:25 AM // 02:25

Do you mean they have 2 profesions but they dont use skills from they're other profesion. Or no secondary at all? Because it's impossible to have no secondary post-searing. Except pvp only characters, that start at 20.

Pyro Master · Jun 08, 2005, 02:33 AM // 02:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnisac

Do you mean they have 2 profesions but they dont use skills from they're other profesion. Or no secondary at all? Because it's impossible to have no secondary post-searing. Except pvp only characters, that start at 20.

They haveno secondary at all, and sorry I meant pre-searing

Axehilt · Jun 08, 2005, 03:03 AM // 03:03

I'm almost positive Amnisac is correct - it's impossible to reach post-Searing without choosing a secondary profession.

Assuming it was possible, there would only be disadvantages to not choosing a secondary profession. There are no advantages to intentionally limiting your options.

The Shrodekill · Jun 08, 2005, 03:06 AM // 03:06

i tried doing it with a monk... because there is no chance i was going to put any attributes in anything else, and i would look cool with no secondary, but yeah it made me have a secondary. now, i am glad it made me as i am learning the mesmer skills which i will soon be using in my PvP mesmer/necro (anti-monk build) : )

Jelloblimp · Jun 08, 2005, 03:08 AM // 03:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro Master

They haveno secondary at all, and sorry I meant pre-searing

They will soon have a secondary because you cant go into academy without one.

Tellani Artini · Jun 08, 2005, 05:04 AM // 05:04

As a ranger I ignore my secondary profession. Everytime I think of something I could do with my secondary profession, either I already have a ranger skill that does it cheaper (with expertise) and better or it's totally not my job to do it (healing, etc.) I also find it hard to give up wilderness survival or marksmanship, and without expertise, why be a ranger at all?

There's nothing wrong with using only one profession.

Axehilt · Jun 08, 2005, 07:25 AM // 07:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tellani Artini

As a ranger I ignore my secondary profession. Everytime I think of something I could do with my secondary profession, either I already have a ranger skill that does it cheaper (with expertise) and better or it's totally not my job to do it (healing, etc.) I also find it hard to give up wilderness survival or marksmanship, and without expertise, why be a ranger at all?

There's nothing wrong with using only one profession.

That's simply not true. A R/Mo can Resurrect or Vengeance teammates without any attribute points spent on non-Ranger skills. There are plenty of other examples of skills which aren't linked to an attribute which can improve many builds, regardless of your chosen primary profession.

In fact it's somewhat rare that your secondary fails to provide any decent unlinked skills at all.

I guess R/E would probably be the worst combo if you have zero attributes in your secondary. The only things expertise would affect would be Glyphs (which only affect Spells) and two Air Magic direct damage skills which are considered "Skills" not "Spells" (according to this website at least; didn't verify in-game. The skills are Shock and Lightning Touch.)

theclam · Jun 08, 2005, 07:49 AM // 07:49

I once saw an E20 in post-searing. Would that be someone who is in the midst of changing their secondary profession, or did some bug allow them not to choose a secondary profession?

Tellani Artini · Jun 08, 2005, 08:52 AM // 08:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by theclam

I once saw an E20 in post-searing. Would that be someone who is in the midst of changing their secondary profession, or did some bug allow them not to choose a secondary profession?

If it was in a pvp zone, it was probably a pvp character. You can choose no secondary prof when creating those.

Raiddinn Beatdropper · Jun 08, 2005, 04:19 PM // 16:19

At least in beta, you didnt have to pick a 2nd. I dont know if it changed since release, I used to see lvl 15 seared chars with no 2nds all the time, mostly rangers.

Tsunamii Starshine

Rey Lentless · Jun 08, 2005, 04:59 PM // 16:59

There are plenty of useful skills that either don't require attribute points at all, or don't require them to be effective. Not picking one is just stupid.

I've seen a few, but don't recall where. So I guess that was just pvp areas.

Darkest Dawn · Jun 08, 2005, 05:45 PM // 17:45

I can understand both sides of this coin. It is good to have the options to use the skills in your secondary class. However, if one chose poorly their secondary class and yet still enjoys their primary, they why not? Also, some fluctuate depending on the needs of a group. If I have two monk primaries in my group, then I don't need to clog the ranger full of healing and rez skills. I could then better focus on pindown, disrupt, and a whole litany of skills that make my bow do great for my team.

Another thing is that if you use other skills, chances are that most need some attribute points put towards them to be worth while. If one sacrifices to get their healing from 25-40, but their arrows do 20 less damage, then it may not be in their best interests to go that route.

Finally, some people so enjoy a particular class that they put to full use skills that are all in one class. Of my four characters two use both and two use just the skills from their primary class. It is mainly due to my personal playing style.

Axehilt · Jun 08, 2005, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkest Dawn

I can understand both sides of this coin. It is good to have the options to use the skills in your secondary class. However, if one chose poorly their secondary class and yet still enjoys their primary, they why not? Also, some fluctuate depending on the needs of a group. If I have two monk primaries in my group, then I don't need to clog the ranger full of healing and rez skills. I could then better focus on pindown, disrupt, and a whole litany of skills that make my bow do great for my team.

I have a hard time believing that any Ranger build wouldn't be made better by taking Vengeance or Resurrect.

If a teammate dying means one of your Monk primaries is entirely turned off for 10 seconds while they rez someone, you're much more likely to suffer additional deaths. It's always best to have one of your secondary Monks rez people, especially R/Mos and W/Mos.

I just can't imagine a Ranger build that needs all those Ranger skills so badly that it can't budget 1 or 2 slots towards Rezes. Certainly there's the idea that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure - preventing the death in the first place is optimal. But if a Ranger build isn't effective enough to prevent the teammate from dying with 7 Ranger skills, is the 8th Ranger skill really going to make that much of a difference?

Quote:

Another thing is that if you use other skills, chances are that most need some attribute points put towards them to be worth while. If one sacrifices to get their healing from 25-40, but their arrows do 20 less damage, then it may not be in their best interests to go that route.

As I said before, many class combinations can draw on the unlinked skill(s) of their secondary class. The particular example of having Monk as your secondary is probably the most extreme, due to the valuable nature of Ressurecting players.

Quote:

Finally, some people so enjoy a particular class that they put to full use skills that are all in one class. Of my four characters two use both and two use just the skills from their primary class. It is mainly due to my personal playing style.

That's fine. For many players, the "enjoyability" of a build isn't dependant on the effectiveness of a build. If they enjoy sub-par builds, more power to them - the purpose of the game is to have fun after all.

Again, I'm not saying that only playing with skills from one class automatically makes a build sub-par. My main gripe was with the specific example of a Ranger not using Monk secondary unlinked skills when they're so frickin powerful and add so much to any Ranger build.

Tellani Artini · Jun 08, 2005, 09:19 PM // 21:19

In my case, frozen soil is a better choice than resurrect

Darkest Dawn · Jun 09, 2005, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axehilt

I have a hard time believing that any Ranger build wouldn't be made better by taking Vengeance or Resurrect.

If a teammate dying means one of your Monk primaries is entirely turned off for 10 seconds while they rez someone, you're much more likely to suffer additional deaths. It's always best to have one of your secondary Monks rez people, especially R/Mos and W/Mos.

I just can't imagine a Ranger build that needs all those Ranger skills so badly that it can't budget 1 or 2 slots towards Rezes. Certainly there's the idea that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure - preventing the death in the first place is optimal. But if a Ranger build isn't effective enough to prevent the teammate from dying with 7 Ranger skills, is the 8th Ranger skill really going to make that much of a difference?

As I said before, many class combinations can draw on the unlinked skill(s) of their secondary class. The particular example of having Monk as your secondary is probably the most extreme, due to the valuable nature of Ressurecting players.

That's fine. For many players, the "enjoyability" of a build isn't dependant on the effectiveness of a build. If they enjoy sub-par builds, more power to them - the purpose of the game is to have fun after all.

Again, I'm not saying that only playing with skills from one class automatically makes a build sub-par. My main gripe was with the specific example of a Ranger not using Monk secondary unlinked skills when they're so frickin powerful and add so much to any Ranger build.

Mind you, I used rangers as an example. In choosing skills it is important to build based upon how you play, and how your team is configured. If you want to ready something and another does not, it constitutes a difference of opinion, not a moral dilemma!

Also, I wan't necessarily saying you should or should not do anything, merely giving possible scenarios.

There as so many skills to chose from. how many per class? I say let people set up that way which they think best, and be done with it.

I agree that the secondary skills are important. However, not always! And since everyone has their view of what is "best" everyone will differ if you ask them.

My necro uses only necro skills. He has a ranger secondary. I can go anywhere with the henchmen and do well. I was helping a friend get char hides when he died, lol. I was left to face eight char with my then level 14 necro with only necro skills. Guess who won? Was I lucky? Or perhaps I found what skills worked for me in this build, and went with it even though I had access to the ranger skills? I choose not to use a bow, and don't want to deal with a pet. That doesn't leave me many things to choose from in the skills list for rangers! Am I an exception? I think not! Yet, there are times and build conditions where the mix of skills is extreemly beneficial.

My mesmer is a perfect example of a good mix of secondary skills with the primary. My secondary is monk. So I have rez, banish, orison of healing, and heal party mixed with backfire, and three other mesmer skills(domination and illusion). At level 10 she is at Yaks, and has done so alone with henchmen. I would be foolish to have neglected my monk skills.

My warrior/elementalist uses only warrior skills... for now. My monk/ranger uses only monk skills since he also doesn't use a bow, and a pet can be death if it gets killed when I need to heal in my party!

Mind you, I'm open to changing things around if the party needs it, but not by default!